I’m still confused by the fixation some have on Genesis as a literal work.
It is a literary work. Perhaps one of the most significant literary accomplishments in mankind’s history. Holy and inspired? yes. Science? no.
Yes, Moses is credited with composing the first five books (the Torah), but he did not invent them all from scratch! Rather he organized the stories, compiled over hundreds of years, somewhat like Constantine organized your New Testament gospels and letters at the Council of Nicea.
The Oral traditions of the Hebrew people were different going in to our exile in Babylon, than they were coming out.
Some of the Persian influence was incorporated into our stories.
This is a fact.
Yes, the Bible stories are inspired, holy and contain truth, but the message is what is important, not the wording!
For instance, there is a Sumerian poem that predates the biblical story of creation by about 1,000 years, wherein man was fashioned out of clay to do the work of the gods. Sound a little familiar?
Why is it more theologically significant for you to believe Adam ("ha adam" — the man) was just one single man made out of dirt, than to believe he was selected/chosen by our Creator (just as Abraham, Elijah, Moses were singled out) to become the first recipient of an immortal soul, of free will?
Why is it more comforting to imagine than man was made out of "dirt," (adamah) than to understand the amazing process of evolution?
The message doesn’t change at all if the "first man" is chosen out of a group of evolved primates (i.e. homo sapiens) to experience the very first relationship with our Creator. The story itself still has merit and truth, yet poses no conflict with modern science!
I’ve been trying to understand this point of view, but it still escapes me. I’m still hoping for a way to fathom it, if you can help.
Thank you.
To some people it is simply far more important that they be right than anything else, you are never going to change their minds. I’ve often argued that the stories of the Torah were actually the story of the founding of the Jewish People rather than of all Mankind, that is why when Cain was cast out their were other people with whom he could go live. The Venerable Cesare Baronius stated in the 16th century that the Bible was never intended to be a science textbook, in his words it "shows us how to go to Heaven, not how the heavens go".
The majority of Christian Churches have accepted Evolution for decades, as have many Muslims, it is only the Fundamentalists who keep fighting it, something I attribute to their Church Leadership being dependent on the blind obedience of their congregations in to maintain their political power and lavish lifestyles and educating their followers from birth to simply accept not just the God or the Bible but the Preachers as infallible. People raised in such a way have no capacity for reasoned analysis and defense of their preconceptions, "God said it, I believe it, that settles it" leaves no room for such things.
Nice rant
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.
The name Adam actually means dirt or clay.
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Because it’s a fairytale. Anything can happen in those. Have you ever met a singing, red-headed mermaid? Didn’t think so.
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Atheist.
If you want to believe you’re a monkey then go ahead, i chose not to.
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So - let me get this straight - you are okay with the idea that God created everything, but it is impossible to think that that very same God could not make man from dirt?
Hmmm
And could you explain why the same minerals found in our body match the composition of common clay?
God Bless you
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Adam’s body was made of the ground. That gave him authority over the ground and all that is in it.This body is what satan yearns to get ahold of and to possess it. So he can fully express himself in the earth.God formed Adam’s body from dirt, then he spoke Adam into existence. We are spirit beings, we have souls( mind , will, and emotions) and we live in these physical bodies. When that body malfunctions you have to leave here.You do not have a right to be here without it.You are the highest creation God has ever made.Angekls are in a lower class than man. We were made in God’s image and are like Him.
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did you know mankind is still made from dirt?
100% of what our bodies are made up can be found in the ground.
so why couldn’t God have made us from dirt?
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The story refers to the dirt as the physical body of Adam and the breath of God as the spirit and these becoming a living soul.
Man is made first physical and the spirit and becomes a living soul.
I take it from the star of David you are Jewish.
I can not explain to you the Jewish view but I can share with you the revelation God has given me through the spirit.
Gen. 1:26 And God said, Let US Make man in OUR image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen. 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Feel free to e-mail me.
1 Cor. 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
We are born first of the flesh and then of the spirit.
The first will be last and the last will be first.
Read the story of Esau and Jacob.
First the flesh and then the spirit.
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I think it is more on an elemental level. I believe the importance lies not on what man is made, but that Adam was fashioned by God’s own hands. As far as Godly experiments (i.e. evolved primates) go, I have to disagree for God gets it right the first time, every time. We are the ones who screwed things up.
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If one is thinking in the flesh, it’s hard to understand the old or new testaments_____ As God’s spirit moved men to write they wrote____ the bible is a book writing by God,____telling holy men what to write…___ if people can’t understand what it means____ it could be that person reading hasn’t opened his heart to God, or that person doesn’t have the Spirit of God in him or her.
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To some people it is simply far more important that they be right than anything else, you are never going to change their minds. I’ve often argued that the stories of the Torah were actually the story of the founding of the Jewish People rather than of all Mankind, that is why when Cain was cast out their were other people with whom he could go live. The Venerable Cesare Baronius stated in the 16th century that the Bible was never intended to be a science textbook, in his words it "shows us how to go to Heaven, not how the heavens go".
The majority of Christian Churches have accepted Evolution for decades, as have many Muslims, it is only the Fundamentalists who keep fighting it, something I attribute to their Church Leadership being dependent on the blind obedience of their congregations in to maintain their political power and lavish lifestyles and educating their followers from birth to simply accept not just the God or the Bible but the Preachers as infallible. People raised in such a way have no capacity for reasoned analysis and defense of their preconceptions, "God said it, I believe it, that settles it" leaves no room for such things.
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A good question. I hope you didn’t expect a good answer.
Kuve said it best, although I’m sure that wasn’t what you were looking for exactly.
If it were only that they wallowed in their ignorance and kept to themselves, the rest of society could just let them be. Unfortunately, they try to inject their narrow, and erroneous perceptions into the classrooms of our public schools.
Pity, because science and religion are really two sides of the same coin so to speak.
You might find this interesting: http://www.songofgenesis.org
Shalom!
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’cause he’s a MAN…..
(joking)….I slay me.
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It seems most people didn’t actually attempt to answer the question but recited bible verses and hoped you miraculously "saw the light" reading it yet again
Kuvo and mariel gave good responses IMO
To play devils advocate, seeing as I don’t believe this crud, I’d have to think it mostly comes from the sect of people who think the bible is either completely and literally true or none of it is
Such dichotomous, black-and-white people can rarely be made to see grey
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I agree with you.
And even אדמה need not be taken literally - it just means he came from the ground, in some kind of metaphorical way.
I’m pretty sure even the classical biblical commentators did not view all of Genesis literally - Maimonides definitely did not.
In fact, most of Midrash, and the entire דרך הדרש, takes it non-literally!
EDIT: @Muldah - you completely missed the point.
EDIT: I agree with Kuve’s line - "To some people it is simply far more important that they be right than anything else, you are never going to change their minds."
EDIT: To actually attempt to answer the question, I could see why some fundamentalists would take the bible literally. If one believes the bible is the divine word of God, then it must mean what it says - God wouldn’t lie, right?
Plus, the people who do tend to take it literally do so because that’s how they’ve been brought up, and they don’t know any better.
<start_rant> They also tend to think that P’Shat is what Rashi thinks, simply because thier teachers melded the acutal verses and Rashi’s commentary, not differentiating between them. So from kindergarten on, they have a warped view of the bible. (I know. This happened to me, and i didn’t "recover" until high school.)
Ironically, Rashi usually does NOT take things literally.
<end_rant>
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I’m Jewish - Orthodox. Went through 17+ years of Jewish education, including 2+ years in Yeshiva.
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